Well done on the Shakespeare marathon Anthony and the C400 is perfectly set up.
Notts 10 in August, a few 5's knocking about then any of Dave Denton's mile races from September or a track mile - the club could even organise a track mile race up at Ilkeston.
Brilliant effort so far!
400 Challenge
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boyband6666
- Signifer
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- Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:47 am
Re: 400 Challenge
Ok to put this one to bed (hopefully), I now have times recorded for everything apart from the 1 mile... and am entered in to the 1 mile and 5000m tomorrow in Nottingham. I've also knocked bits off of some of the other times
1 mile TBC
5K 16.27 (Newstead Abbey) edges out the 16.43 (LE Parkrun)
5 mile 27.58 (Trent 5) edges out the 28.04 from Holme Pierrepont
10K 34.04 (Tara Kinder) edges out 34.29 (Rushcliffe 10k)
10 mile 57.45 Notts 10
1/2M 75.44 (Belvoir half)
M 2.50.24 (Shakespere marathon)
Total time, 383.22 (I think?), leaving me needing a 16.30 (my 5k best) for 1 mile.
Whilst a lot of the times are good, the marathon is kind of lame and hinders the whole attempt, after London was simply too hot to get close to the time I wanted. Shakespere was done to then get qualification for London Marathon (as well as Boston if I decide I want to do it). It is however a massive handicap as it means my 400 challenge is very beatable - compare to my 2014 set, whilst the sub marathon times net faster now, I'm haemorrhaging 11 minutes on the marathon (a <2.40 marathon would have made this all very hard for someone to beat). Still, it should be a decent marker and club best if added to the race standings as an actual challenge which I think it should be - the range you have to show is enormous, backed up with a good marathon.
Even after tomorrow I won't be done (hopefully), with the Wilne 10k, and Worksop Half both chances to chase some more seconds, plus parkruns whenever I get a change to run quick. Fingers crossed I make it to, and round, the mile...
1 mile TBC
5K 16.27 (Newstead Abbey) edges out the 16.43 (LE Parkrun)
5 mile 27.58 (Trent 5) edges out the 28.04 from Holme Pierrepont
10K 34.04 (Tara Kinder) edges out 34.29 (Rushcliffe 10k)
10 mile 57.45 Notts 10
1/2M 75.44 (Belvoir half)
M 2.50.24 (Shakespere marathon)
Total time, 383.22 (I think?), leaving me needing a 16.30 (my 5k best) for 1 mile.
Whilst a lot of the times are good, the marathon is kind of lame and hinders the whole attempt, after London was simply too hot to get close to the time I wanted. Shakespere was done to then get qualification for London Marathon (as well as Boston if I decide I want to do it). It is however a massive handicap as it means my 400 challenge is very beatable - compare to my 2014 set, whilst the sub marathon times net faster now, I'm haemorrhaging 11 minutes on the marathon (a <2.40 marathon would have made this all very hard for someone to beat). Still, it should be a decent marker and club best if added to the race standings as an actual challenge which I think it should be - the range you have to show is enormous, backed up with a good marathon.
Even after tomorrow I won't be done (hopefully), with the Wilne 10k, and Worksop Half both chances to chase some more seconds, plus parkruns whenever I get a change to run quick. Fingers crossed I make it to, and round, the mile...
Re: 400 Challenge
Well done, Anthony you're almost home and dry with this year's magnificent effort. I'm pleased that it's been a worthy challenge for you again and that it's kept you focussed all year to the extent that shaving seconds off earlier times is still important to you.
I agree that the challenge is sufficiently hard enough with the spread of distances to merit some table of ranking for all annual completions and all time records. I'll keep recording informal completions of the 7 distances in a year by all LERCers until a time they can be instated into a formal table in the archives.
As for your results being a 'club record' that's less easy to confirm now that the GDPR regulations have destroyed many records that were in the results archives (take a look at the all time standings now). Post -2000 there were a number of LERC runners recording 2:30 +/-marathons that may have covered all the distances in a year but the results are now deleted and pre-2000 there were equally talented LERC runners whose results were never in the data base - maybe there's a 'lost' paper copy of old standings held by a club member? - including marathoners in the 2:20's. In the 'modern era' your sub-400 time will certainly set an known club record.
Your next challenge is the Challenge 20 that was described in one of the more recent posts in this thread. I never attempted an annual Challenge 400 until I'd thought of it but then was too old to manage a sub-400 but I have a lifetime one - but I did succeed in one year with a sub-C20.
Managing sub C400 and C20 would be an achievement; recording an annual sub C400 and C20 would be a tremendous effort and to complete both in the same year very special indeed. The approach would be the old fashioned endurance in the winter with long distance races earlier in the year eg half and marathon by Easter / April, then taper down with 10 miles and 10k late spring and then increasing speed work for all the track in the summer.
Fancy it?!
I agree that the challenge is sufficiently hard enough with the spread of distances to merit some table of ranking for all annual completions and all time records. I'll keep recording informal completions of the 7 distances in a year by all LERCers until a time they can be instated into a formal table in the archives.
As for your results being a 'club record' that's less easy to confirm now that the GDPR regulations have destroyed many records that were in the results archives (take a look at the all time standings now). Post -2000 there were a number of LERC runners recording 2:30 +/-marathons that may have covered all the distances in a year but the results are now deleted and pre-2000 there were equally talented LERC runners whose results were never in the data base - maybe there's a 'lost' paper copy of old standings held by a club member? - including marathoners in the 2:20's. In the 'modern era' your sub-400 time will certainly set an known club record.
Your next challenge is the Challenge 20 that was described in one of the more recent posts in this thread. I never attempted an annual Challenge 400 until I'd thought of it but then was too old to manage a sub-400 but I have a lifetime one - but I did succeed in one year with a sub-C20.
Managing sub C400 and C20 would be an achievement; recording an annual sub C400 and C20 would be a tremendous effort and to complete both in the same year very special indeed. The approach would be the old fashioned endurance in the winter with long distance races earlier in the year eg half and marathon by Easter / April, then taper down with 10 miles and 10k late spring and then increasing speed work for all the track in the summer.
Fancy it?!
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boyband6666
- Signifer
- Posts: 349
- Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:47 am
Re: 400 Challenge
I did indeed complete it last night. 4.52 for the mile means for now it's 388.14, with the chance to shave off seconds here and there (sadly not minutes as I'm not taking another marathon on this year). It's taken me a few years to do, and I dread to think how much in race entries, but it was an interesting concept that I wanted to beat.
Looking through the database I think you might be right it may not be a record. I've know there are people much faster who've got better PBs at all the distances (and quite a few of them). I'd be very surprised though if many has actually done this in the same year recently - it's the odd distances that catch you out. The database however looking back does have in it races like 'Derwent Water 10 mile' and 'LARA 1 mile' that don't exist now - the reason I've struggled to do it is I can think of precisely three 10 mile events (double or quits, Notts 10, Burton 10), more opportunities (and better marathon times) from history, and there is a chance.
I have had a look through all the people who have done a marathon faster than the one I did this year (13 of them, 12 of whom who have PBs over the distances that beat my combined time - one person doesn't get close to half, 10k, 5k, etc. so it doesn't matter if they had their best year, it wouldn't win), of whom a half don't have times for all the distances (especially 1 mile). Then half of those left when they have done some of the rarer distances haven't done other ones, or haven't in those years done a marathon. Still, it does leave maybe 3 people who if you add it up might have a better combined time. Thankfully Neil Renault isn't one of them, as otherwise the time would be untouchable (2.20 is hella quick!). I might at some point add up their times, but for now, I'm content for having done it.
The next question is does it have to be done in a calendar year, or is it a 12 month period. I can see the case for both, but think I prefer the 12 month period as it seems like it is something you might try and do before a milestone birthday e.g. before 40. I'll check out the challenge 20 also, but I think from memory it was more track running, which I've no history of, so would be hard.
Looking through the database I think you might be right it may not be a record. I've know there are people much faster who've got better PBs at all the distances (and quite a few of them). I'd be very surprised though if many has actually done this in the same year recently - it's the odd distances that catch you out. The database however looking back does have in it races like 'Derwent Water 10 mile' and 'LARA 1 mile' that don't exist now - the reason I've struggled to do it is I can think of precisely three 10 mile events (double or quits, Notts 10, Burton 10), more opportunities (and better marathon times) from history, and there is a chance.
I have had a look through all the people who have done a marathon faster than the one I did this year (13 of them, 12 of whom who have PBs over the distances that beat my combined time - one person doesn't get close to half, 10k, 5k, etc. so it doesn't matter if they had their best year, it wouldn't win), of whom a half don't have times for all the distances (especially 1 mile). Then half of those left when they have done some of the rarer distances haven't done other ones, or haven't in those years done a marathon. Still, it does leave maybe 3 people who if you add it up might have a better combined time. Thankfully Neil Renault isn't one of them, as otherwise the time would be untouchable (2.20 is hella quick!). I might at some point add up their times, but for now, I'm content for having done it.
The next question is does it have to be done in a calendar year, or is it a 12 month period. I can see the case for both, but think I prefer the 12 month period as it seems like it is something you might try and do before a milestone birthday e.g. before 40. I'll check out the challenge 20 also, but I think from memory it was more track running, which I've no history of, so would be hard.
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boyband6666
- Signifer
- Posts: 349
- Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:47 am
Re: 400 Challenge
Looking a bit more, I can't see any that beat it. The closest would be Andy Colegate in 2006 who would push it close, but doesn't have a 5k time, and Paul Lewis in 2010 who is out of sight of all my PBs (never mind my times this year), apart from not having done a 1 mile in that year. Everyone else I checked seems to have a gap somewhere - whilst over a lifetime they are far ahead, getting it all in the same year is the issue. I ay have missed someone, but so far, nothing.
Interestingly quite a few of the gaps are 5k, which these days with parkruns everywhere you take for granted. The other big gap being 1 mile, Tim Wetherall, Bannister 1, and the mysterious LARA are the only ones I can see in the entire database!
Interestingly quite a few of the gaps are 5k, which these days with parkruns everywhere you take for granted. The other big gap being 1 mile, Tim Wetherall, Bannister 1, and the mysterious LARA are the only ones I can see in the entire database!
Re: 400 Challenge
Well done Anthony for completing the C400 for 2018 and in good time to trim it back further before the year’s end.
To answer some of the points you’ve raised:
The case for both calendar year and a one year period, especially for milestone new age cateogories is a good one. However, the bad news for you is that within the database of existing records there is a runner that claims both calendar and year period C400 best times – Paul Lewis.
In 2008:
1m 4:49
5k 15:54
5m 27:05
10k 33:23
10m 56:55
1/2M 1:13:36
M 2:49:38
Total 377:20
For a year from 14/4/10 – 13/4/11:
1m 4:45
5k 16:10
5m 25:35
10k 32:13
10m 54:27
1/2M 1:10:38
M 2:35:06
Total 354:54
(somebody might want to double-check these and my maths and suggest amendments)
Piecing together information from the ‘Ex-member results’ still doesn’t appear to produce completion of the seven distances whichever year measure is used. There may be better times in the ‘paper records’ in pre-internet days but I suspect not and maybe we’ll never know. For now, Paul is the current holder of both year measures and a lifetime C400 probably goes to either Neil Renault or Nick(y) Lees who in his day was running 2:15 +/- marathons, sub 29 minutes 10 000m and won two team golds for England in the World Cross-country championships in 1979 and 1980.
The LARA races are now what are just called the Derby mid-week races organised for many years by David Denton and are 1mile and 5k races held one evening every month from September to April and run alongside Raynesway in Derby. The courses are flat and good for fast times. Information is here:
http://www.runningwithdavid.com/
http://www.runningwithdavid.com/racesdetails.php?rid=9
The Derwent Water 10 does still exist and info is here for the race in November 2018:
https://derwentwater10.weebly.com/
Locally there aren’t that many 10 miles around – check out Sneyd runners 10 mile race near Walsall in early December, it’s a reasonably quick 2 lapper has a long gradual hill but you get a long down each lap too - but if you’re prepared to travel there are plenty around. Have a look at this link and sift through the regions and multi-terrain / trail races to find the 10 mile road races:
https://www.timeoutdoors.com/events/10- ... rid=24&v=2
As for the C20, with a 4:52 mile you’d be well placed to have a go at this with the right track intervals and hill-work sessions. Try adding track races into your training, you’ll be surprised what it’ll do for your road racing. I didn’t turn to track until I was 29 after a decade of road (decent but not outstanding 10 mile 58:08) and cross-country running and in that year ran 400m 57s, 800m 2:02, 1 mile 4:49 – and the track helped my road and XC racing. At 40 I trained for a Bob Graham target that year which meant weekends from February until late June having back to back long days in the Lakeland fells. I still mixed it up with a 58:20 10m and 1:17 1/2M on the road; and continued on the track - 400m 60.2s, mile 5:03 and 3000m indoors 9:55; and a county V40 win trail running - and never felt one type of running was negatively affecting the others. Think about including track and more off-road racing in your training for the possible benefits these running disciplines could bring to your road running.
Hope the rest of the year brings some quicker times for you.
To answer some of the points you’ve raised:
The case for both calendar year and a one year period, especially for milestone new age cateogories is a good one. However, the bad news for you is that within the database of existing records there is a runner that claims both calendar and year period C400 best times – Paul Lewis.
In 2008:
1m 4:49
5k 15:54
5m 27:05
10k 33:23
10m 56:55
1/2M 1:13:36
M 2:49:38
Total 377:20
For a year from 14/4/10 – 13/4/11:
1m 4:45
5k 16:10
5m 25:35
10k 32:13
10m 54:27
1/2M 1:10:38
M 2:35:06
Total 354:54
(somebody might want to double-check these and my maths and suggest amendments)
Piecing together information from the ‘Ex-member results’ still doesn’t appear to produce completion of the seven distances whichever year measure is used. There may be better times in the ‘paper records’ in pre-internet days but I suspect not and maybe we’ll never know. For now, Paul is the current holder of both year measures and a lifetime C400 probably goes to either Neil Renault or Nick(y) Lees who in his day was running 2:15 +/- marathons, sub 29 minutes 10 000m and won two team golds for England in the World Cross-country championships in 1979 and 1980.
The LARA races are now what are just called the Derby mid-week races organised for many years by David Denton and are 1mile and 5k races held one evening every month from September to April and run alongside Raynesway in Derby. The courses are flat and good for fast times. Information is here:
http://www.runningwithdavid.com/
http://www.runningwithdavid.com/racesdetails.php?rid=9
The Derwent Water 10 does still exist and info is here for the race in November 2018:
https://derwentwater10.weebly.com/
Locally there aren’t that many 10 miles around – check out Sneyd runners 10 mile race near Walsall in early December, it’s a reasonably quick 2 lapper has a long gradual hill but you get a long down each lap too - but if you’re prepared to travel there are plenty around. Have a look at this link and sift through the regions and multi-terrain / trail races to find the 10 mile road races:
https://www.timeoutdoors.com/events/10- ... rid=24&v=2
As for the C20, with a 4:52 mile you’d be well placed to have a go at this with the right track intervals and hill-work sessions. Try adding track races into your training, you’ll be surprised what it’ll do for your road racing. I didn’t turn to track until I was 29 after a decade of road (decent but not outstanding 10 mile 58:08) and cross-country running and in that year ran 400m 57s, 800m 2:02, 1 mile 4:49 – and the track helped my road and XC racing. At 40 I trained for a Bob Graham target that year which meant weekends from February until late June having back to back long days in the Lakeland fells. I still mixed it up with a 58:20 10m and 1:17 1/2M on the road; and continued on the track - 400m 60.2s, mile 5:03 and 3000m indoors 9:55; and a county V40 win trail running - and never felt one type of running was negatively affecting the others. Think about including track and more off-road racing in your training for the possible benefits these running disciplines could bring to your road running.
Hope the rest of the year brings some quicker times for you.
-
boyband6666
- Signifer
- Posts: 349
- Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:47 am
Re: 400 Challenge
It seems like I'm second in that case on both... though there's no shame being behind those efforts - they are pretty stunning. The calendar year one I'm pretty sure I can beat on a good year - and would have done in 2014 with a couple more distances done, but the 12 month period one is just ridiculous. I'll need to improve substantially to get anywhere close to any of the times, never mind do them all in a 12 month period! The 1.10 half and 32 10k being the most impressive in my eyes.
Thinking about it more I'm really not sure if it should be tracked in a calendar year, or in a 12 month period. Both seems like a lot of dilution, but I don't know which makes more sense. Maybe your original idea of in the calendar year? it is a good challenge to take up - your time over all the distances *in that year*, whether or not you break 400 (or 500, or 600... or 350 as Paul nearly did).
Lifetime ones it would be close between Nick and Neil I agree. Both are hugely talented, though favourite is probably Nick just because the marathon makes up so much of the challenge, and his PB is about 4 minutes faster; at that level 4 minutes is a lot to make up.
As for my plans, I've actually started doing more short sessions now I've signed up to be coached (8 months in, and I'm back to PB form). Maybe I'll have a go at C20 next year - for now it is the Wilne, then lengthening the distances (halves), before next April when I will do London, and maybe Boston.
Thinking about it more I'm really not sure if it should be tracked in a calendar year, or in a 12 month period. Both seems like a lot of dilution, but I don't know which makes more sense. Maybe your original idea of in the calendar year? it is a good challenge to take up - your time over all the distances *in that year*, whether or not you break 400 (or 500, or 600... or 350 as Paul nearly did).
Lifetime ones it would be close between Nick and Neil I agree. Both are hugely talented, though favourite is probably Nick just because the marathon makes up so much of the challenge, and his PB is about 4 minutes faster; at that level 4 minutes is a lot to make up.
As for my plans, I've actually started doing more short sessions now I've signed up to be coached (8 months in, and I'm back to PB form). Maybe I'll have a go at C20 next year - for now it is the Wilne, then lengthening the distances (halves), before next April when I will do London, and maybe Boston.
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