400 Challenge

Running at the weekend or away from the Club? Let people know when, how long & how fast - you might get some company
wilko
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400 Challenge

Postby wilko » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:13 am

Some time ago whilst sat in the pub a discussion about race times led to an idea which I'll call the 400 challenge.

It consists of 7 race distances ran in a calendar year and the cumulative times for them all should add up to under 400 minutes.

It's a big ask as I'll put an example of the schedule of the 7 races and an idea of times below. It's hard but it represents what a good competitive club runner could achieve and so bettering it would give a -1:23 400 Challenge (-1:23 meaning bettered by 1 minute 23 seconds) thus a +3 400 Challenge is 3 minutes outside.

A sub 400 challenge example might look like:

Marathon 2:52
Half-marathon 1:19
10 miles 60:00
10 Km 37:00
5 miles 29:00
5 Km 18:00
1 mile 4:59

A total of 359:59 ie a  -1s 400 Challenge.

The race distances are the most commonly run ones although the challenge might be to find 10 mile races locally other than the Notts 10 and 1 mile races but we could organise these on the track at Ilkeston and there's the club's Bannister mile in May.

Races distances could be run throughout the year with the best to count. 

The challenge is to get as close to it as possible and try to improve the next year.  

An alternative for runners where the marathon doesn't figure for them would be a half challenge with a slightly more generous 250 minutes and so a schedule might be:

Half-marathon 1:27
10 miles 66:00
10 Km 39:00
5 miles 32:00
5Km 20:00
1 mile 5:59

Still a challenge but that's what it could be.

Or to put a more positive slant to it there could be challenges in 50 minute increments ie 400 / 450/ /500 Challenges. And for the real elite of the club a 350 Challenge:

Marathon 2:27
Half-marathon 1:10
10 miles 54:00
10 Km 32:00
5 miles 26:00
5 Km 16:00
1 mile 4:45

Thus 349:45 is very possible by the very  best in the club.

It poses some interesting questions. Will anyone complete the 7  races that make up the challenge regardless of their total time during 2013 ( as far as I can work out and happy to be corrected, only Carrie Chan and Richard Ford completed all 7 race distances in 2012), does anyone break 400 minutes, do runners times over this wide range of distances match those given in race time predictors, is there a difference between their actual and predicted times for men and women or senior and vets and ultra - vets? 

Anyway,  if the body holds up and dog bites permit,  I'll have a go at this as a target for this year.

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chrisity
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Re: 400 Challenge

Postby chrisity » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:57 pm

A quick addition of my PB's gives me about 370 min, and given that they were all achieved in the same year then the challenge is achievable by the good club runners (are you listening Chanty?)

Get rid of the Marathon, and i reckon i might be on a 300 minute challenge now. #-o
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Andy P
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Re: 400 Challenge

Postby Andy P » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:53 pm

Right.

I'll aim for < 200 without a marathon. It'll be harder on the one hand because dropping the marathon means each other distance has to be a bit quicker than the example times above... but also easier because there's no marathon.

As you say though the 10miler is the key - a windy day at HPP and you can suddenly be 5 minutes off target without a backup race.

I'll count road and track, but not multi-terrain or dubious courses like Braunstone Parkrun.

Update to follow in 49 weeks time... if you can all hold your excitement that long anyway.

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Deano
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Re: 400 Challenge

Postby Deano » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:48 pm

Andy P wrote:
I'll count road and track, but not multi-terrain or dubious courses like Braunstone Parkrun.



One of my NY resolutions is not to run Braunstone parkrun again. Before getting my Garmin I was prepared to accept that it was NAD (i.e. within 0.01), but my one run with the GPS showed that it's only 3.07, which is worth a good 10 secs. If I'm going to run hard, it may as well be for a legit time!

I like the sub 250 idea. I've no inclination to run a marathon, but could be tempted by an autumn half, especially if I can get into some decent form, have 1m, 5k, 5m, 10k and 10m times in the bag and therefore have a specific time to aim for at the HM. I'd hope to get close to sub 210 in total if injury permits.

Sub 200 would be going some, Andy. Marginal gains to be had over 1m, 5k and even 5m and 10k, so, as you say, to get under 200 you'd need to run probably a sub 70 half and a fast 10 miler of about 52 mins. On 2012's evidence, you are obviously capable of it, but you'd need the right races!

wilko
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Re: 400 Challenge

Postby wilko » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:27 pm

That's the spirit! It'll be interesting to see how many folk complete either the marathon or half marathon version (whether intentionally or not) and if it acts to motivate by setting these overall target times - I'm sure we'll see at the end of the year.

Another year target I used to have was to run :

10 miles under an hour;
3000m under 10 minutes;
I mile under 5 minutes and;
400m under 60 seconds.

I finally failed when I was 40 as I could'nt crack the 400m and mile running cruel times of 60.2s and 5:03! Then never really given it a go since so maybe it's time to see how the times stand now.

Andy, fancy these?

10 miles under 52m
3000m under 8:30
1 mile under 4:30
400m 55s!

Andy P
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Re: 400 Challenge

Postby Andy P » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:13 pm

wilko wrote:Andy, fancy these?

10 miles under 52m
3000m under 8:30
1 mile under 4:30
400m 55s!


A sub-52 10 miles would mean the rest of the sub-200 becomes a lot easier (I allowed 53 for it) but I'd want a good 6+ months to get down to that sort of time! It'd be tough but not out of reach on a good day, so the right sort of goal to have I suppose.

The rest all look a bit :twisted: painful. I don't know much about 400m/mile times, but 8:30 3000m is really starting to shift!

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Deano
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Re: 400 Challenge

Postby Deano » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:31 pm

Looking at it, my first response was that 8:30 is equivalent to a sub 52 10 miles but much tougher than a sub 4:30 mile. More like a 4:20 mile.

In my experience, sub 55 might be the toughest, depending on natural speed. It's one thing training to have the endurance to run 8:30 and 52, but it's pretty difficult to do that at the same time as doing the speedwork (and it would be proper sprint speedwork) required to break 55. While 54.9 is not outstanding sprinting, it's still moving. My lifetime bests over sprints distances are 7.35, 11.4, 23.0 and 51.9, none of which are, in the great scheme if things, all that great, but to run even those times took plenty of the kind of training that isn't easily done when knocking out 50-70 miles a week and also doing sessions designed to ensure a good performance over 10 miles. That said, breaking 55 maybe isn't that hard for a 4:20, 14:55 runner.

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Re: 400 Challenge

Postby Andy P » Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:54 pm

I'm sure the anticipation of this post has been as exciting as Christmas itself - so wait no longer.

Unfortunately I was a DNF in the 200 Challenge, due to not running either a 1 mile or 10 mile race.

But if you cheat and use my official Cardiff HM split time for the 10 mile, and whack a bit onto my 1500m time for the 1 mile, then it comes out like this:

HM - 69:50
10m (split) - 53:11
10k - 31:38
5 miles - 25:51
5k - 15:33
1 mile (based on 1500m of 4:06) - 4:24

Total 200:27. :-({|=. Moot point as to whether that 27 seconds is from using a HM split time or not, a couple of seconds per mile might be the difference... but anyway, you have to actually run the distances so it means nowt.

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boyband6666
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Re: 400 Challenge

Postby boyband6666 » Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:02 pm

As for the 400, I think I probably come closest, though again a DNF as I was injured for the Notts 10 (though had en entry, annoyingly), didn't do a 1 mile race (same injury as for the Notts 10), and my 5k was under distance.

Marathon 2:52.50
Half-marathon 1:17.35
10 miles 58.32 (10 mile split from my half marathon)
10 Km 34.48
5 miles 28.20
5 Km 17:01 (predicted by Fetch from my HPRC series under distance '5k')
1 mile 5.28 (average pace of my 5k)

Anyway had I done all the distances, this would give me 392.34, so shows it would be possible, and with a good amount of headroom too. A 375 would even be possible with good improvement, 350 however a bit too much.

It does remind me of something Erewash Valley do as a trophy each year. Basically you have to race a 5k, 5 mile, 10k, and half marathon each year (4 distances). There are then trophies for the fastest of each category (men's and women's, as well as various vet classes), but they also do it on average WAVA score.

wilko
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Re: 400 Challenge

Postby wilko » Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:50 pm

You beat me to it. I was going to wait until the end of the year. Scouring through the club results and 2013 standings I can only find 4 people that completed the '400 or Full Challenge' that consisted of:
full marathon
half marathon
10 miles
10 Km
5 miles
5 Km
1 mile

Apologies if I've omitted anyone or used an incorrect time - I've used what evidence I can easily find; if I've added them up incorrectly please post what you think you achieved.

Nothing wrong with using official split chip times eg London Marathon half way times - this will be more accurate than most 1/2 M, and historically, split times were used in many world records - who can forget Sydney Wooderson's 800 m and slightly longer 880 yards world records in 1938 in the same race or Seb Coe's split 1500m / 1 mile double record attempts in the '80s. Self timing for 10 miles or 1/2 M in a long race, I think we have to say no.

They were in order:

Gavin Kennedy

2:57:21
1:19:04
61:13
36:02
29:36
17:24
5:08
Total = 405:48

Richard Wilkinson

3:07:29
1:27:24
64:51
39:11
32:29
18:26
5:43
Total = 435:33

Rachel Argent

3:52:07
1:46:27
1:21:38
47:09
38:14
25:30
6:38
Total = 537:43

Kevin Barry

4:25:52
2:01:34
2:00:00
52:05
39:57
25:44
7:00
Total = 632:12

Let's see how 2014 goes.

Dicky Wilko

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ksarb
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Re: 400 Challenge

Postby ksarb » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:49 pm

omg my 10 mile time was running on a sprained ankle for 5 miles darn it lol
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Woolly
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Re: 400 Challenge

Postby Woolly » Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:41 pm

Thanks for looking at the scores and totting those who qualified up Richard

Interesting looking at 2013 numbers for me above and working out 2012 to compare against, no 10 Mile race but assumed half ashby 20 time as estimate shows 537 for 2013 vs 587 for 2012.

An interesting challenge to definitely focus on the core race distances for improvements in times.
Rachel Argent, Club Secretary

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chrisity
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Re: 400 Challenge

Postby chrisity » Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:06 pm

So going for 500 this year then Rachel?
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wilko
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Re: 400 Challenge

Postby wilko » Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:03 pm

Just to flag this up for 2014 so far.

Anthony Hatswell is leading the 400 Challenge with times of:

2:39:15 marathon
75:04 half marathon
58:49 10 miles
35:16 10K
27:55 5 miles
17:05 5K

Giving a total time (I think!) of 373:24 and only the mile to do before the end of the year (not many around but Dave Denton's midweek races from September offer opportunities). A complete set from Anthony would give a sub 380 minutes for the 7 distances and a highly impressive set of times over a spread of distances. Again, the 10 miles distance proving problematic with few races of this once classic distance for folk to get the 7 in.

Search them races out and let's get a few more of you hitting the magic 7 distances!

Dicky Wilko

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boyband6666
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Re: 400 Challenge

Postby boyband6666 » Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:18 pm

I have been meaning to have a go at a mile or 1500m, but it is just a case of finding one. The 1500m might be a better one to have in though?

Also for the 10K, I have a new PB as of Wednesday night, 34.47... with the Wilne 10K and Leeds Abbey Dash to come - these are my main targets for the rest of the year!

Anthony


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